Author Topic: NTM and twins?  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline Essa

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NTM and twins?
« on: May 28, 2016, 06:06:06 AM »
BO I hope it's the right place to post since I can't add a new thread here.
I added your NTM in my game a few weeks ago and I'm encountering some oddities.

1. Yesterday I played Thésée L'Ecuyer household which currently counts Thésée, his wife Séléna and their youngest son, Thanos. Their twins, Thalia and Thalès left for uni during this rotation. I send them through the uni screen.
Thanos and Thésée both only have the memory of Thalès going to uni while Séléna has no memory.
Relationwise (don't know if it's a word), parents are 100/100 with their twins and Thanos has 100/100 with his sister and 35/35 with his brother.

2. I got two families burgled.
In one family, no one but one sim got the memory. In the other family, no one got the memory.

I have all EPs and SPs (discs).
Other memories mods I have installed are: Aaroneous' memory manipulator (to fix memories in game when possible otherwise I use Simpe), DiLight's tattered diary and easy relationships
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 01:05:20 PM by miros1 »

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2016, 08:33:16 AM »
Yeah, Essa, this is the right place to ask. Only the admins could start new threads in this sub-board.

1. I know what you mean. I see similar things happen in my game as well. Two sisters go to college simultaneously, but some of their relatives only have the memory of the oldest one. I have no idea if this is related to my mod, but I think it *could* be. However, I have absolutely no idea how to fix it. Because NTM is supposed to treat the memories about both sims exactly the same.

2. Yeah, that happens too. Did the sims in the second family *see* the burglar? Or were they asleep the whole time and did an automatic alarm call the police? Because the sims must have been awake to know about the burglary.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention, Essa. I'll continue to look into this, and I hope that some day I'll find out why these things happen.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:38:10 AM by BoilingOil »

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 09:55:54 AM »
Ok, thanks for the quick reply.

1. I think I'll fix the memories with Simpe then.

2. I think I must pay more attention to what's happening in my game. IIRC not everysim was awake during/after the burglary.

Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2016, 11:31:17 AM »
I think this problem with memories and Uni is simply what happens if you use the *Send sims to college* routine, just as when you move them into a house or dorm, only the first one to exit the taxi has the parent there to wave goodbye.  For that reason, I always send my sims to college from home, one at a time, and move the second one into an empty house before moving them in with their sibling. I only use the Uni screen to send townie teens or NPCs to college.
"All the world's a Neighbourhood, and all the men and women merely Sims."  ZephyrZodiac with apologies to Willie Waggledagger.

http://www.4shared.com/u/yCrnLoEP/Zephyr_Zodiac.html

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2016, 12:51:34 PM »
Ah, that helps me a lot, ZZ. I will from now on do it that way, too, then! Thank you so much :bow:

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2016, 05:26:27 PM »
You sometimes gain a little pecuniary advantage, too - some empty houses return more than the initial rent when you move the student back into the bin!  (Plus they are very cheap to rent next time....)
"All the world's a Neighbourhood, and all the men and women merely Sims."  ZephyrZodiac with apologies to Willie Waggledagger.

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 02:45:16 AM »
I think this problem with memories and Uni is simply what happens if you use the *Send sims to college* routine, just as when you move them into a house or dorm, only the first one to exit the taxi has the parent there to wave goodbye.  For that reason, I always send my sims to college from home, one at a time, and move the second one into an empty house before moving them in with their sibling. I only use the Uni screen to send townie teens or NPCs to college.
I will do that and report back next time I'll send sims to uni. Maybe next week.

Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 08:57:33 AM »
I'm back with some feedback.

I set an admission lot (residential) in my Uni hood. Three playable teens were sent to uni from home, Cole Morand (single child), Philbert and Elana Laferrière (twins). I got the cinematics for all of them.

Cole's parents both get the memory "Cole went to uni". On a side note, Cole's mother was at the hospital (home business).
Philbert's father and young sister both get the memory of him going to uni. No one gets the memory of Elana going to uni.
Philbert's mother get no memories of her twins going to uni.

I fixed the missing memories with  Aaroneous' memory manipulator.

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 11:03:24 AM »
Did you send Philbert and Elana simultaneously, or one by one?

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 12:02:09 PM »
Philbert and Elana were sent to uni one by one.

Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2016, 12:13:38 PM »
Did you save and exit the lot, then reload the lot before sending the second twin?  Who was actually on the lot and awake?  Do you have Pescado's No Telepathy mod installed?
"All the world's a Neighbourhood, and all the men and women merely Sims."  ZephyrZodiac with apologies to Willie Waggledagger.

http://www.4shared.com/u/yCrnLoEP/Zephyr_Zodiac.html

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 12:26:42 PM »
I'm also wondering what would've happened if you had removed NTM before sending them to college. Because the mod changes only one thing: at the moment that the memory is distributed, it tests if your settings allow it. Nothing more, nothing less. Between sending the first twin and sending the second, that setting does not change. So they really should be treated equally.

So following that, I have no choice but to believe that either Maxis screwed up again somehow, or another mod has something to do with it.

And because I see the same thing happen in my game, I think it is Maxis' fault.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 12:29:21 PM by BoilingOil »

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 12:54:17 PM »
I think it probably is, although separating when twins go to college might make some difference to those memories.  However, sims not on the lot sometimes do not get certain memories, and sometimes they do... but with No Telepathy there would be less of those memories for sims not living on the lot where the event took place.  A lot of this was there in the BG and Uni, but has since become *lost* - for example, I had a sim suffer death by satellite and not one of his family (wife and four children, all awake at the time) were aware of it.... but I'm sure that in the early days there would have been much weeping and wailing - there was when I killed off a cow mascot!
"All the world's a Neighbourhood, and all the men and women merely Sims."  ZephyrZodiac with apologies to Willie Waggledagger.

http://www.4shared.com/u/yCrnLoEP/Zephyr_Zodiac.html

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 12:58:56 PM »
You're absolutely right, ZZ. My sims even weep their hearts out for a total stranger who gets eaten by the Cowplant! So it's not that they're insensitive. It's just that they aren't told everything they should know. But I don't have notelepathy, so that's one mod that *I* cannot blame for the issues.

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 02:40:54 PM »
So it would seem NoTelepathy does do what it is intended to do - to stop sims having memories of stuff that is none of their business!
"All the world's a Neighbourhood, and all the men and women merely Sims."  ZephyrZodiac with apologies to Willie Waggledagger.

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2016, 03:04:48 PM »
Did you save and exit the lot, then reload the lot before sending the second twin?  Who was actually on the lot and awake?  Do you have Pescado's No Telepathy mod installed?
1. No. I will try that next time.
2. Everyone. I usually send my teens in uni around 8 in the morning so they can say goodbye to their family.
3. Yes I do have that mod. Part of its description said that "most memories are no longer transmitted telepathically to relatives that they have never even met before." I truly think it's working as intended.

I'm also wondering what would've happened if you had removed NTM before sending them to college. Because the mod changes only one thing: at the moment that the memory is distributed, it tests if your settings allow it. Nothing more, nothing less. Between sending the first twin and sending the second, that setting does not change. So they really should be treated equally.

So following that, I have no choice but to believe that either Maxis screwed up again somehow, or another mod has something to do with it.

And because I see the same thing happen in my game, I think it is Maxis' fault.
Well I can run this test next time I'll have to sent twins to uni.

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 11:10:18 PM »
@Essa: I would be grateful for any attempts made to clear up this issue. If a similar situation comes up in my own game, I will try as well.

So it would seem NoTelepathy does do what it is intended to do - to stop sims having memories of stuff that is none of their business!

I'm not going to make any claims on that. Notelepathy may work as advertised, or it may not. I'm not using it, so I have no evidence of it either way.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:12:06 PM by BoilingOil »

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2016, 05:52:25 AM »
I'm back with some results. I've run the tests with Vixente Granville-Carver's household which consists of his wife, Fabienne, their twins Fréa and Boris, and Allard, their youngest son. The Groups.cache file was deleted before each test.

1. With NTM disabled, I sent the twins to college from the Uni screen
Fabienne, Allard and Boris got the memory of Fréa going to uni.
Fréa got the memory of her twin going to uni.
Vixente got no memory.

Then I decided to remove the whole DL folder.

2. I sent the twins to college from the Uni screen (vanilla game)
Fabienne, Allard and Fréa got the memory of Boris going to uni.
Boris got the memory of his twin going to uni.
Vixente got no memory.

3. I sent the twins to college ZZ's way, Boris was the first to go (vanilla game)
Fabienne, Allard and Fréa got the memory of Boris going to uni.
Vixente got no memory. He was the one who waves her son goodbye at uni.

Then I sent Fréa and no-one but her twin brother got the memory of her going to uni.

4. I sent the twins to college ZZ's way with NTM activated and whole DL folder
Got same results as 1.

=> I think that the "X went to uni" memory is "messed up" when it comes to twins.
1. The parent showing up in the cinematics (or supposed to) won't get memories at all.
2. No one but the first twin will get the memory of the second twin going to uni.


Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2016, 06:41:03 AM »
Did you close the lot, reopen it and allow some time to pass before sending the second twin?

The only problem that I can see would be if a parent is a Family Sim and has the LTW to graduate 3 children from college.  If they only have the memory of one twin going to college, they would need two other children (not twins) in order to get the xxxx graduated from college memory.

Have you tried moving one twin to live with a relative or friend before going to college?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 06:42:50 AM by zephyrzodiac »
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 07:44:41 AM »
So, in conclusion, this totally proves my claim that NTM does not really influence the reliability of "went to College" memory distribution (or any memory, most likely). The details of who gets a specific memory and who doesn't, may differ slightly from one instance to the other. But overall, it's just as screwed up in vanilla, as in any modded game.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us, Essa. Much appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:53:21 AM by BoilingOil »

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Offline Essa

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Re: Re: Questions (and Answers) about BO's mods
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2016, 10:25:14 AM »
You're welcome BO.

Did you close the lot, reopen it and allow some time to pass before sending the second twin?
Yes I did.

The only problem that I can see would be if a parent is a Family Sim and has the LTW to graduate 3 children from college.  If they only have the memory of one twin going to college, they would need two other children (not twins) in order to get the xxxx graduated from college memory.
I remember back in the days (2007-2008) when I was doing a Legacy, the LTW was fulfilled with only two children graduated from college. I was truly disappointed.


Have you tried moving one twin to live with a relative or friend before going to college?
Nope.

 

anything