Author Topic: Smart Beds confuse me...  (Read 16431 times)

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Offline BoilingOil

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Smart Beds confuse me...
« on: June 26, 2010, 03:50:28 AM »
Hi TJ,

I've been using the Smart Beds mod with the Relax Plug-in for quite a while now, and I can't say that I notice anything wrong... but one thing keeps confusing me all the time.

According to HCDU, the plug-in loads BEFORE the main package (they're in the same folder on my system), which renders the plug-in completely useless. Wouldn't it be logical for the plug-in to load last and take precedence? :hmm: :confused:
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 07:11:06 AM by BoilingOil »

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Offline Aaroneous

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 11:58:52 AM »
The plug-in should load after the main file. Usually the game loads files by alphabetical order, Then folders the same way. Hopefully that makes sense.

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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 02:10:39 PM »
I *know* how the game loads the files... Yet on my system, the plug-in always loads first. And it makes sense too...

"Smart Beds - Relax Plug-in.package"
"Smart Beds.package"

Just look at the first character after "Beds": in the computer alphabet, the space (" ") does preceed the dot (".").

That's why I'm asking, because if the plug-in *does* need to load last (which makes sense), I think the file names weren't chosen very wisely ;)

So I'll do the following: I'll rename the main package to "Smart Beds - Main.package" so it'll preceed the plug-ins.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 02:15:29 PM by BoilingOil »

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Offline arathea

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 02:29:51 PM »
That's strange. I have both files and in my Simbology folder the main file comes first - with the original names.
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 03:17:42 PM »
There must be a reason for that difference, I suppose... Where to start? Your guess is as good as mine ;)

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 04:08:32 PM »
BO, I don't usually use the plug-in, but I stuck it in and ran the HCDU and, like you, found that the plug-in was listed first.  Now, I stopped using it because I didn't find it working as I would have liked... maybe that's why?
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 04:53:19 PM »
Yup, if it loads before the main file, it can't do what it's made for... May I ask, what file-system do you use?

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »
NTFS.... but the main Smart Beds shows first in Windows, it's just the HCDU which shows them the *wrong* way round.  There again, according to HCDU, I have a *downloads* folder, which I have never had in all the years I've been playing.....
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Offline arathea

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 05:12:07 PM »
Just look at the first character after "Beds": in the computer alphabet, the space (" ") does preceed the dot (".").

The space is part of the name but the dot is part of the ending (.package). That's why the main file comes first.
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2010, 05:15:06 PM »
Not necessarily, arathea. In my folder, even in Windows Explorer, the plug-ins show first.

You're right that the dot isn't actually a part of the name, but for my system, that doiesn't seem to mean much.

And, like ZZ, I'm using an NTFS file system. Might there be a difference in how FAT32 and NTFS sort files? Because I know that many people still use FAT32...

ZZ: do you mean *downloads* as in "No capital D" ?? If so, I have that, too...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 05:20:00 PM by BoilingOil »

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Offline arathea

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2010, 05:30:00 PM »
I'm using NTFS too. Are you sure that the folder is set to sort by alphabet? If I add new files, the order is sometimes messed up.
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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2010, 06:37:44 PM »
Exactly, BO - my folder is called Downloads, as it has been since Sims 1 days, but the HCDU spells it with a lower case *d*!

Dunno about the dot... I have the endings not visible, it makes it such a nuisance if I want to alter a filename.
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Offline miros1

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2010, 08:14:52 PM »
Arathea, are you allowing Windows to hide the suffixes?  Most people force Windows to show them.

Offline arathea

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2010, 09:42:04 PM »
Arathea, are you allowing Windows to hide the suffixes?  Most people force Windows to show them.

No, they are not hidden. Why do you ask?
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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2010, 10:27:47 PM »
Miros, I hide the suffixes.  They are shown by default, I choose to hide them, and it should not affect alphabetical order.
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Offline arathea

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 02:48:09 AM »
I changed the settings to hide the suffixes (and changed them back later) and there wasn't a change in the alphabetical listing of the files.
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 03:49:32 AM »
I'm using NTFS too. Are you sure that the folder is set to sort by alphabet? If I add new files, the order is sometimes messed up.

I know what you mean... I force the system to show the file extensions and to sort by name.

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 07:05:25 AM »
I never ever had to force the system to show suffixes, I had to force it not to show them.... as for sorting, I normally sort by name, but when I'm working within a folder I will often change that to file type, as that makes it so much easier to unzip multiple files.  I think, whatever you leave the folder programmed to do, it will continue to do until you change the instruction, but if, for example, you have the folder set to sort by name, and you add a few more files to the folder, then while they will be added initially to the end of the list, once you close and reopen the folder those files will have been assimilated into the list.

I don't know why the name order within a folder for those two files should be different than the load order shown by HCDU, maybe it isn't important, maybe it is....
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 07:14:10 AM »
I don't know that either. I *do* know that on my system they're *always* listed in the same order, in Explorer AND in HCDU. I expect that HCDU is rigged to read the files in the order the game loads them in, tho...

Anyway, now I've renamed the main package, they sort correctly in both places. So hopefully that's also the case in-game.

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 07:27:22 AM »
Let us know if it makes any difference to how sim behaviour is affected....
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 09:07:57 AM »
Will do!

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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2010, 02:25:54 PM »
To be honest, now I'm even more confused. Something on my system is backwards, it seems.

Explorer and HCDU now report the files in the correct order, so one might think things are as they should be... BUT...

One of my sims wakes up in the morning, completely rested and comfortable, gets out of bed, makes the bed, and then starts to relax! And he does that EVERY morning! I never had this weirdness before, so I'm going to put things back the way they were!

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2010, 03:41:23 PM »
He obviously sees the plug-in as an instruction, not a permission..... :giggle:
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Offline aussieone

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2010, 04:40:37 PM »
To be honest, now I'm even more confused. Something on my system is backwards, it seems.

Explorer and HCDU now report the files in the correct order, so one might think things are as they should be... BUT...

One of my sims wakes up in the morning, completely rested and comfortable, gets out of bed, makes the bed, and then starts to relax! And he does that EVERY morning! I never had this weirdness before, so I'm going to put things back the way they were!

Bummer! I was keeping an eye on this thread as I've never been totally happy with the way smart beds work. I understand that if a sim is tired they'll use the bed to gain comfort, but to lie there, hour after hour, even when the comfort bar is full, irritates me no end. Maybe I'll try what was suggested and change the file name and see if it works for me. If not, oh well.

Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2010, 05:20:50 PM »
You know, I don't use it, or AH's mod either, and my sims only relax when their comfort is less than full, and as soon as it is full, or they *think* of something they'd rather be doing, they are off.... the only time it is a problem is if their *one* is asleep, in which case they will just lie there for hours..... but it does, at least, keep them out of mischief.
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Offline twojeffs

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2010, 09:45:20 PM »
Sorry, totally missed this thread until now...

Hmm. Well son of a bitch! :blink: I'm not sure how I never noticed that before. :ninja:

That behavior after changing the load order is a little concerning though. Certainly not expected if the plug-in is actually working.
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2010, 01:55:41 AM »
That's what I thought, too, TJ ;) I'll just restore things to the way they were (where the plug-in seems to load first), since that always worked well...

And by way of experiment, I might remove the plug-in for a while, and see what happens. A mystery such as this is a challenge: I *must* find out what's going on! ;)

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Offline Nyxie

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2010, 04:40:58 PM »
Did you ever get it to work for you BO? I put in the smart beds and then ran HCDU and got this

Quote

*** POSSIBLE CONFLICT DETECTED ***
File Type: BHAV
Procedure Name: Interaction - Relax - TEST
Group ID: 0x7F4437F2
Instance ID: 0x00002034
Packages Containing This Procedure:
\downloads\Hacks\TwoJeff's awesome mods\Smart Beds\Smart Beds - Relax Plug-in.package
\downloads\Hacks\TwoJeff's awesome mods\Smart Beds\Smart Beds.package
 

I was wondering if that's the same issue?
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2010, 09:26:40 PM »
Actually, that looks exactly the same as it was for me, Nyxie! And since that suggests that the plug-in loads BEFORE the main package, I'm inclined to believe that it's not right.

However, recently, while browsing through Cyjon's mods, I ran into Get Off Your Ass!. This mod makes sure that sims only sit or relax when it's necessary (comfort is the lowest motive), or when there's absolutely nothing else sensible for them to do, or when they can combine it with something else, like watching TV or something like that. Of course, this also conflicts with smart beds and the Relax plug-in. I've kept smart beds, but removed the relax plug-in, and made Cyjon's mod load absolutely last. Now my sims behave rather properly.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 09:44:22 PM by BoilingOil »

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2010, 09:44:19 PM »
I had that mod and swapped it out for the smart beds, but I'll do the same as you and see how I fare. Thanks!
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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2010, 09:45:31 PM »
You're welcome. I hope it helps you as much as it did me ;)

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Offline miros1

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2010, 05:51:59 AM »
I'm just afraid it would interact badly with Skillinator and the workstations, which seem to run the Sims' comfort down like mad!

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2010, 06:29:51 AM »
No, it won't conflict, miros1.

This mod makes sure that sims only sit or relax when it's necessary (comfort is the lowest motive), or when there's absolutely nothing else sensible for them to do, or when they can combine it with something else, like watching TV or something like that.

I think it would do just peachy! :thumb:

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2010, 07:14:15 AM »
I would actually like a mod that makes workstations drain comfort on, say, the same basis as standing at the easel.... why one standing occupation should be so much more uncomfortable than another has always had me confused....
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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2010, 07:26:42 AM »
So true! I *do* believe a Robot Station should hit a sim's motives harder than, say, a Flower Station. But that hit shouldn't necessarily be on Comfort. Energy and/or Hygiene would seem much more likely.

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2010, 07:36:04 AM »
True, and maybe the potter's wheel should be a little more tiring than sewing.... (and there, of course, the comfort drain can be adjusted depending on the chair...) although I must admit, whenever I've toured a potbank museum with demonstrations, the demonstrators of how to throw pots have always sat on a stool....
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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2010, 10:12:30 AM »
You don't say! :biglaugh: On the same note, gardening should be a much more unhygienic activity... Toiling in soil causes one to get dirty, after all.

Also, not all hobby activities should be fun for everyone. While some may find stargazing a fascinating activity, others simply don't give a damn. I think it's stupid that a playful person would first *object* to using a telescope, and then still derive *fun* from the activity... And if they don't like it, they also should NEVER roll the want to do it.

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 10:18:20 AM »
Just had to chime in to say "I agree!"

If a person really doesn't like to cook, paint, or go jogging (etc) why on earth would they keep "wanting" to do so?

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2010, 10:22:01 AM »
True!  I have several Leo sims who have no neat points whatsoever, but since they are also Family sims, are always wanting to gain cleaning skill points!  This would only make sense if the gaining of skill points in a certain area also raised the personality points that relate to it - and that just doesn't happen.
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Offline Katya

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2010, 06:35:05 AM »
although I must admit, whenever I've toured a potbank museum with demonstrations, the demonstrators of how to throw pots have always sat on a stool....

When I first got FreeTime it took me a while to figure out why my sims were complaining whenever I told them to use the pottery wheel...naturally my experience being that everyone sits down to use one in real life, I'd put a chair down and blocked their access.

I do wonder, with hobbies, whether the one true hobby could be linked to whether a sim finds another interest boring or not. In-game I can't imagine someone with an OTH of Fitness being too interested in Culinary, but they may have a higher-than-average interest in Sports; likewise a Music and Dance sim might have a higher-than-average interest in Arts and Crafts, but be disinterested in Science.
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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2010, 12:32:10 PM »
That's where tunaisafish's enthusiasm mods seem to help.  I definitely see sims who have the fitness OTH enjoying sports, too.  However, I also have a new graduate who became interested in movies while a child, and even though her OTH is fitness, she has already written three novels, and keeps wanting to write more.... (and she's popularity, too - odd she should want to do something so introverted as writing novels, but it just goes to show that some sims just defy the rules!)
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Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2010, 12:56:43 PM »
In RL, some authors are very popular because they write, of course ;)

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Offline zephyrzodiac

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2010, 02:20:39 PM »
True, but so far no sim author in my game has been asked about their novels, they have to force the issue themselves.... now, if they were to get invitations to speak at a literary dinner, for a fee of, say, 2,000 simoleons, that would be something worth aiming for!
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Offline simsfreq

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2010, 03:52:31 AM »
When I first got FreeTime it took me a while to figure out why my sims were complaining whenever I told them to use the pottery wheel...naturally my experience being that everyone sits down to use one in real life, I'd put a chair down and blocked their access.

Katya, I did the same thing - in fact *looks sheepish* I only realised my mistake a couple of weeks ago, and I got freetime not long after it came out. I thought they were just complaining because of having the wrong kind of chair or something!

Thanks for the link to Cyjon's site, BoilingOil, I hadn't seen his stuff before, but I love it - a modder who plays along the same lines I do  :thumb: (I have an almost identical university semester duration mod!)
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Offline aussieone

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 06:04:12 PM »
I've been play testing Cyjon's Get Off Your Ass mod as suggested by Boling Oil and it works on sims exactly the way I've always wanted a mod like this to work. Thanks for the link Boiling Oil  :thumb:

Offline BorrowedName

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 12:24:03 PM »
So... in conclusion I should not use the relax plugin but instead use the CJ Get Off Your Ass?? changing the name of the file so it loads after smartbeds?

Offline BoilingOil

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Re: Smart Beds confuse me...
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 05:36:21 PM »
You *should* nothing, but I *would* recommend it, yes. And in stead of changing its name, you could put it in a folder that comes after the folder Smart Beds is in.

But yeah, Get Off Your Ass *is* - at least in my opinion - the better alternative to the Relax plug-in. :)

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